small business | 

Show Notes

• Karley Cunningham
• Bigbo!dBRAND
• Ray Williams

 

Transcript 

Jalen 

Karley, I am really glad to have you on the show today. I've been waiting to chat with you for a long time. It seems like you've been going through a lot of. Shift changes in your business lately and maybe maybe redecorating your life? I'm not sure. But it's nice to have you today and I'm looking forward to hearing your story about building from the inside out. And so would you mind starting with the story that will anchor us in that journey?  

Karley  

Absolutely for sure. First, thank you so much for having me. I'm really looking forward to our conversation. It is so critically important for impact and purpose driven businesses, those who want to do good in the world, which is when you invited me on to this show, I was like, Oh my gosh, this is so incredibly perfect. We aligned so well. The way I go about helping. Purpose driven businesses impact driven businesses. I call them the disruptors and the innovators and the change makers in the world is definitely an inside out process and why and how I learned that was important was my own journey. And so I don't see the development of one's personal positioning or brand or how they show up in the world different from the way a company goes about it, because companies as much as we think of them as things, they're actually made-up of people and so. Well, let's just dive into the story. So I was in my early 30s. And I had hired, I would call him a business, slash life coach. The initial in my own mind and how we, you know, the stories we tell ourselves, the reasons I hired them is because I had some self limiting beliefs and I couldn't break through the barriers of those and. I hired Ray because he's very well respected in the business community. He gives back. He's just. He's just so. Lovely and calm and grounded, and that is. As folks may get. To know through this interview that. Is not. I am very dynamic, I can be very intense and I move very quickly. I've been called a Hummingbird before, so I stepped into this coaching arrangement knowing that he would be a good balance and anchor for me, and the first time for my first coaching session, he would host his coaching sessions. Down at the. Terminal City Club, which you know for all intensive purposes, if we're thinking about this, was about 15 years ago, I'm rounding, you know, still very male oriented, still very you know right side energy, very much gang, very professional, very high end. And I'm sitting in the middle of one of the dining rooms of this club. And Ray just calmly looks at me and he. How can I help you? And it was like the emotional floodgates just unlocked. I started to say to him I. Said, you know. I said. I I'm in my early 30s. I've made a life for myself in Vancouver. I own a business that is very quickly growing and has a phenomenal reputation. I have a. Great personal brand reputation in the city. To my knowledge, I'm fortunate enough to be dating a pilot. I can go anywhere in the world with in a few days. Notice I own property on my own in Vancouver. You know I have all these things. I live in outdoorsy life, which I love. And I'm ****** miserable. And as I'm telling this. Story I can feel the tears welling up and I can feel the tension in my body. And so I'm just and then away it goes. And so I'm sitting. In the middle of the Terminal City club. Fortunately, it was early in the mornings there. Weren't too many people around in front of. A mentor I greatly respect. You know wet eyed and snotty. Nose. So great, right, you.  

Jalen  

Perfect.  

Karley  

Know just just the you know, shining. Example that you. You want to show up in in a in. A situation like. That, and so, I mean, I can laugh about it now, but if you want to talk about vulnerable and embarrassing, you know. And I've I've never been one I wear. My emotions on. My sleeve, but to to. Have someone with that you know when you someone holds space for you and then all of a sudden everything feels safe and the rest of the world drops away. I mean that is that is a skill that he has acquired. And I find that you hold that groundedness in that space as well, which is why I'm very comfortable sharing this story. OK, so fast. Forward to working through why I was miserable as we figured out I was completely misaligned. With myself. I was living in contrast to my values. I was in a business partnership where our we would say our values were the same family and I can't remember what they were. No family was one of them like family first. Well, but what family first? Meant for us was very, very deep. Different and so the difference in our understanding of those values, because I have found that folks tend to use one word values or guiding principles for their company when it needs to be much more deep and understood is it just would pull so much tension between the two of us. But the business would always bring us back together. Because we did have commonalities. But there was just too much difference. So the business partnership I was in was causing me too much stress. It wasn't values aligned. I had built my own personal brand because I was young. A young female. I was in a very conservative business circle at the time and I had built myself to be what I perceived. And what the social message was to me that I should be. And it is so in contrast to, I'm not conservative, I'm not quite in demur. I'm not, you know, the woman who is going to stand by and smile. I I am boisterous. I am loud. I mean, if if I don't know. If you're going to do video of this, but you can see the colors on. My sweater? I. I'm just out there. I'm a raging. Extrovert and so I had put myself in this box. Do what I thought at the time was. Be able to do business with the people. I thought I should be serving. So completely misaligned with self on all. Points I didn't understand. I wasn't clear on my my purpose. Like why? Why did I have this business beyond making money? And I was chasing the dollar because I was young and I needed to keep up with life in Vancouver, you know, caught up in the keeping up with the Joneses. All these external forces. That we're making me miserable.  

Jalen  

That's one set of points of reference, but it could also be like you can you can go in that same direction, have a similar experience with positive values, because like you can have, you know, all these trying to be doing all these amazing things. But that doesn't necessarily mean that you're fully in alignment.  

Speaker  

100%.  

Jalen  

And I'm, I mean, I'm not trying to suggest that suggest that like reaching for positive things would be out of line out of alignment with the person, but that maybe the way they're doing it or the place they're doing it right? How they're doing it, right?  

Karley  

Yeah, I'm absolutely tracking with you. So so began the understanding. Of building from the inside out language people, you'll hear people use is is. You know aligning the. Heart and the head or from a business perspective, is aligning the technical aspects of the business. You know what you do, what you sell with the heart. And soul of the business. Now leading with the heart. And that was lacking for me because I had been doing. It all from. The head and all the shoulds that society tells. Us you should be. This you should do that your clients want. You to be this. So you should be that. Yeah, no.  

Jalen  

With alignment even like, because you're an athlete and your background is being an athlete, right? It's like when your body is out of alignment, you don't have the same capacity, same ability to perform, right. So it's I would think similarly. That alignment is. All has all to do with your ability to actually excel.  

Karley  

And you? It's like I sent you a script for this. I did not. And that is a core example that I use with our clients and there is actually in our model of how we deliver what we deliver. There is a spine. It's a. Little triangles that are. All aligned within it because when when 11, you know disc in your back is misaligned and it's pressing. Against something or pulling away from something that. Can either create. It can completely shut you down and bring you to your knees. And I had reached a point of misalignment on so many levels that it brought me to my knees in a, you know, metaphorical sense.  

Jalen  

So what was your journey binding alignment?  

Karley  

Oh, great question. We went through a process and I I don't know. I don't know that Ray would have called it this, but it's it. You know how I experienced. It with is. We just started looking at the aspects of what I now have as a how to develop your brand, whether it be a personal brand or a business brand, which is primarily the work that I do is I went through a process of deconstruction like looking at all the elements. What is my purpose in this world? What are my values? And you know those are can be hard to figure out until you have someone who can bring tools to help you figure. It out otherwise. You're kind of poking around the dark. Testing and even having done that exercise, what's really funny Side Story is that through my resistance to doing things my wife and I found out that one of my top. Values is convenience. Didn't even come up in the surveys, but so it's a journey. And I went through the journey of pulling things apart. What's my vision? Where do I want to? Be in three to five. I mean, I'm an innate systems thinker in a planner. So having knowing what my North Star is is so incredibly important to me. To be able. To build the structure of how I move forward, as you said I. I have a huge background. And I would say half of. My life and still is around athletics and being physical and being active and achieving, and you know, even if it's on my own accord, hey, I'm going to go reach the top. Of that mountain tomorrow. I need to understand how I'm. Going to get there, I'm. Not a throw it together. Person and then we. Look at how do I want to show up in the world? Like what is authentic to me and what do I want my character to be? What do I want to be known for? And so we pulled apart all of those things on the personal aspect, and then we started to look at the career path of, you know, what is my body of work and what is the value that I bring to those that I serve? And that's both personally and professionally because one of the other things that was misaligned was. My closest. The closest. People were to me in my, quote UN quote personal life. If we want to divide the two. I don't now don't believe that they. Do divide but. And how I presented myself. On social media and in the business world. I got called out on that by the person I was dating at. The time, and they're like, who is this person? What I read about on social. Media cause that is. Not the you that I. You know, and so the deconstruction happened and it was, you know, the opening of the layers. And funny enough, I was working with a yogic mentor at the same time. So we got into alignment of the chakras and energetic stuff. So I was doing this eastern and Western work. If you really. Want to do deep work? Hey, add. Both of those at the same time and it's. Just lit a stick of dynamite and dropped it in my own personal space. And so it was heavy.  

Jalen  

That sounds a little excruciating.  

Karley  

And at times it was, you know, I mean, if we want to go deep in the conversation. I think your audience is is is our. One who will embrace that if everything is energy. You know, some of the energetic clearing that I had to do because I was withholding my authentic self because I was taking on energy and and ways of being and doing that weren't mine. Purging my, my being of that was, you know, some days laying on the floor sobbing. If we're going to go Full disclosure like. It is not. An easy process, but I am so grateful that I went through it. Because it allowed me to see that when you. Get clear on those things for yourself and you can live. Everybody says I want to live authentically. We want our brand to be authentic. Authenticity is an output of being. Aligned with what matters to you, what you're passionate about, what your values are.  

Jalen  

And it sounds it sounds a lot. Like a it's. Like a like we've talked about branding and it has a very sort of business idea and it's all kinds of ways people think of that. But when we think about it personally, it sounds to me like where you're. Talking about trying to both get clear on who you are and or decide, I mean both the exploration and the decision about who you are and who you're becoming. And then then making sure that that all that that you have, you're in integrity around that?  

Karley  

In integrity with intention, yes.  

Jalen  

Right. And then then the the business and then then then doing the similar thing with your business?  

Karley  

Yeah, I mean here, here's the thing.  

Speaker  

Right.  

Karley  

The reason the two when I can do the same work with a person who wants to build their personal brand and I haven't done it for years because my focus is on that working with small to mid sized businesses, but it the process is the same and here's why. Companies are made. Up of people. People have thoughts. Can that come from beliefs? They have values, they have dreams and ambitions. They have trauma that comes with them and trigger points like they are actively dynamic beings with truths, fundamental beliefs and truths of who they are. And yes, you can work to change. But to change your values often requires a significant life event. The loss of a loved 1A severe accident, like something that is just so shocking that it rattles you to the core. And so companies are made-up of people they, as much as we think of them as things, they're actually not. Because what I have seen time and time again and I can give a a personal I can give the you know the the professional personal example and the business example time and time again I've seen people go through the process of the shoulds and building from the inside out and following the marketing data that we should be positioned here. And what happens is, is these folks. Who've come in? For purpose and to make impact and the external forces get so strong that they get pulled off their center and it just becomes a job. They're they're working to serve something that is not aligned with who they are and that could be a founder or that could be a team and that team needs to come to agreement because I've lived the experience of having a business partner who's misaligned in that frenetic energy and pull intention. You can both have great intentions, but if you're not aligned on the foundational level, there's going to be problems. I've seen businesses split become of it because of it. I've seen business owners become disengaged and just show up for a job when they own the business on the. On the personal side, you know I've I've run into executives. The ones the best.  

Speaker  

Story I ever.  

Karley  

Heard was a gentleman who he'd hit VP of a large banking institution and he said, you know what he's like. I'm kind of done with. This it doesn't feel like me anymore. I don't. Know that it. Was ever me, I said. Well, OK, but. How did you get here? I mean, you're the VP. Clearly something was working for you guys. Well, here's the deal. I was young, got a job at the bank because I came out of university and that's what fit with my. Experience and they promoted me because I guess I was smart and then at lunch they started giving me, you know, I go for lunches with really good sandwiches. And I was. Like, hey, this is great and. Then I met my wife and we. Had kids, so I needed. To make some money. And they offered me. A promotion. I'm like, hey, this is great. He's like then all of. A sudden there were dinners with, you know. Fancy food. And so it was like he was being baited. Along this path and without. The aware, the conscious awareness of self. He just followed the path to find. That, you know, five years from retiring. He's like, I don't really like this anymore. And I don't want. To be here, it's the rides been. Great, but I don't feel like I've lived. I and I don't feel like I. I feel like it could have been something different and happier. And whatever his words were. You could you could feel that tension in him.  

Jalen  

Yeah, because it's it almost sounds as you describe it, almost sounds like somebody. Got swept up by a. Flash flood and then and then they're finding. They're looking around like, where the hell am I?  

Karley  

Or even they, you know, bought themselves a kayak. And it was a fun ride. Down the river but all. Of a sudden the river ended or dried up, and they're like, oh, wait a minute. Didn't really think that through, did I?  

Jalen  

Yeah, so personally it can be really challenging to really dig in and and come to a lot of clarity and find alignment. Do you find it's? Often equally challenging on when it comes to an organization.  

Karley  

I mean, don't get. Me wrong. There's two sides to every coin. Right. Energetically, there is always an opposing force, so you know, I just wanted to state that for those who might be on that precipice of. That deep work. Or feeling like I I. Get what you're saying and now you scared. Me scared the heck out of. Me and not going down that path. Thank you. Very much. I'm fine with my sandwiches. In my corporate life. I think either is hard if. You don't. If you aren't surrounded by what I will call a scaffolding like people who care in community. That will hold you up as you. Journey down that path or or. Rattle that will that will. Be the foundation for you. Very hard to do the journey self-guided. It's possible. I mean there's. I mean, look at how many self help books are out there and I'm. Going to tell you that some of them. Have indeed helped me. But to move through the process with a coach or a guide or a mentor is certainly much easier. And I think that also applies on the business side. So I. Wouldn't I wouldn't say either is equally as hard, but I think that on the business side because folks know you know, we need to understand who we are to show up authentically. It depends on what. Their drivers are, you know, we need to better communicate who we are, what we do and the value we deliver in order to attract clients that we enjoy working with because right now. We're kind of getting a mishmash. So when you move closer to alignment, you you would track things in. Then you show up authentically you your business will grow naturally. So I think from a business perspective, it's easier to justify the work and travel the path because you know what the rewards are. And I think more companies do it. Successful companies have done it and you can see the tangible rewards. But self sometimes you can't see those. Or maybe you didn't have the model for you. In your personal life, in your family life. So hard to.  

Jalen  

It's not quite as public.  

Karley  

Yeah, 100%.  

Jalen  

So I mean, we're starting to touch on how this journey could be less painful or less challenging and that's at some level that's kind of what? These these chats are about. It's like, well, OK, here's this challenge. And you know, now that I now that I know this is what might help to. Someone else to make it easier or shorter or less painful, and so whether it be speaking back to an early version of yourself or like or is someone here, someone who might be. Do you can you think? Of any key things that would. You'd imagine would be supportive.  

Karley  

I think one of the one of the things I want to reframe is the word pain and the word painful. I mean, I think it's more. About being OK with being in a zone of discomfort and knowing to buffer your like it doesn't have to hurt. And sometimes I mean, I think about the context of, of training and physical, you know, I'm a trail runner. Mountain biker, sometimes the. The punchy little climb and the punchy little turn. Because it's steep. It it it? Hurts, but it's only for a few seconds, so you know, having the calm conversations to say, I recognize that I'm out of my zone of comfort. I am in a space of discomfort, which means I'm going to grow. I am surrounded by, you know, my support system by people who care about me and I. Can get through this. And I think the other piece is. Choosing the consultant, the mentor, or the coach, whoever is going to do. The work with. You is ensuring that you trust them. And ensuring that they have your back when you fall. And any person worth their weight in gold will be will do that. You know, that's the do no harm mentality. You know, and even just talking to other folks that they work with, what is their approach, what is their process? Talk to me about a time when things were really hard, or maybe you did feel you were going through kind of the breakthrough moment, which are tend to be, you know, that's where. You grow the. Most that's where. You get the physical, emotional mental gains. How did they support you? And just understanding and trusting because I found because I had two coaches at the time. One Western, one eastern. I could even rely on the other one to kind of support me when I was going through that really hard transformational moment. Sometimes those moments were really joyful, but the energy around it was so big you need someone to kind of. Hold it, hold. The helium balloon down. So being supported I think is the most important thing and and and having knowing that you're walking through a structured journey and knowing what it is that you setting the intention on the end. I mean, again, I'm a structured person, so I want to this is what I want. This is what I want to achieve. This is kind of the timeline this is. Where we're headed because when you're clear on that vision of. Reward or achievement. It's so much easier to move. Towards it as opposed to I know I'm. Going through this process. I don't know when it's going. To end is it? Going to be, you know, another six hours, six weeks or six years to get through this.  

Jalen  

It occurs to me that not only do people may, unless you've been through it before, and even if you have been through before, it's. Always different each time. Cycle you go through. And but I'm also recognizing that people may be in this place that's begging for alignment and may not fully realize it. Individually in their in their business and so individually, first you can think of any indicators that you notice or that you noticed for yourself aside from like well, there was that Flashpoint where? You're where you just it. All splashed onto the table in in the restaurant, but before that looking back, do you? Did you see? What indicators did you notice? That were would give you a sense of like, no. That's your life. Things aren't quite there. They could. Be because.  

Karley  

Well, I mean, one of the biggest gold Nuggets that way of of wisdom that Ray taught me was the only time that you, you know, I mean everybody gets frustrated by things in traffic and whatever, you know. But when you when something. Really confronts you. Upsets you? I mean, I go. I grew up playing with the boys, so I tend to go right to anger. Again, personal self journey. Figuring out what the real emotions were. But when you find yourself in those places of discomfort and disease. Is it's because of two things. One, the person or situation, usually the person or the people are mirroring back something that's in you that you don't like. Or two, they're rubbing against your values. They're they're in contrast and rubbing against your grain. So you watching your emotions. And being paying attention to your physical awareness and how your body like your body, will often react before your mind does. I I can pick up and because Ray taught me to do this, I will rub my my forefinger and my thumb together when I'm. Getting frustrated or angry. That is a like kind of marker that I'm about to go to the next level of frustration or that my body has recognized that before my mind has because we have sensors. All over our body and we're not taught that we're just told we see. Things that goes. To our brain, so looking for recurring patterns. As well. Oh, that keeps happening. Well, why does that? What is it? Because I'm attracting that? Is it because I'm not setting boundaries? Is it? You know, just looking for misalignment? And things are hard. Well, why are things always hard? That's always a key indicator that you're missing a line because you're you. Know when your backs. Out of alignment, things get hard or uncomfortable. So I would say those are some key ones on the on the personal side or? You're getting called out by. Your friends going, there's nothing going on. You're not authentic like good. Friends will do that. For you how you show up over there. Is not how you show up over here, which. Thank you.  

Jalen  

And then business wise, what are what are indicators of that people do not recognize?  

Karley  

Business wise. Feeling like you're going to a job every day. Feeling like you're swimming upstream. A big indicator is is looking at. You can look at your client, but it's like right down all the clients you're working with right now and then take out another color. Green would be good. Highlight the ones that you absolutely. Love working with? What does that split? What does that ratio look like? I mean, I've gotten her. I've gotten myself and our company to a place where. I think about firing a client once a year, and often I don't do that because what's happening for them is. Is a very. Human thing like they're just something in their life is going on and it's just not allowing them to kind of follow my process. But I have no *******. Rule in my car. To me like it just I put that in place and when I put that in place, I had to look. At well, what does that? Look like and the easiest description of it is. If I can't imagine inviting you and having you to a family dinner, whether it be Christmas, Thanksgiving, something with my family and friends, you will not be my client. If it comes to. A point where I would I'm. Invite you. Take you off that list. You will know you will cease to be our client because I don't have. We life is too short. You know, I lost my younger sister three years ago at 36, and I just that really shocked me decor about how short life is. So you talk about changing values and the value of time. So look at your client list and you know highlight the. Ones that don't align. In red and see the contrast. Some others are. Or is there constant tension between the business partners? Is it? Is it always hard to make a decision? You do the same list with team members. Right. Because if if everything's coming up green, that's a really good indication if it's. Kind of met. In the middle it says we've done some work.  

Speaker  

We need to.  

Karley  

Do some more work to make sure. That they're all green. Another one can be the clients.  

Speaker  

Like, are you?  

Karley  

Attracting enough clients of the right fit clients into your business, that's a huge one. I mean, as you're growing a business and when you're in those startup years, it feels like you have to take everybody. Here's the thing, you don't, and here's why you don't want to, because the folks that you take that aren't the right fit. Guess what we're like attracts like. Like refers like. Work with the clients that you love to get the great case studies to get the great testimonials to. Get the referrals from the people that you like because they will refer like minded people. That's huge.  

Jalen  

It's kind of. I mean, I kind of committed to myself to only work with. Good people or what I what I. Call good. People, but for similar reasons like. It's life life too.  

Karley  

100%.  

Jalen  

And it's.  

Speaker  

Also like it.  

Jalen  

Feels like it's a formula for success to feel like like you really feel aligned and and like the other people and and feel a sense of collaboration and trust.  

Karley  

Yeah, the way I way I get our clients. To visualize it, and I I know it's getting. Dated now, but I would say. I just want you to stop and. Imagine the one or two clients. That you love working with every day. They're like, Yep, got them. I'm like, OK, great. Remember the movie gremlins? Like, do not feed after midnight, do not feed or water. I always use the. Metaphor of water. Do not water after midnight, but imagine they are that that person that. You love working. With you get excited to see and to work with. And to dig into their project on Imagine. Pouring water on them and they duplicate. But they're not evil. They're good. And those are those are now all your clients. How awesome would every day be?  

Jalen  

That's that's what it's about. That's that's quite the quite the arc. Do you have any like closing thoughts on what you'd like to share with others around either pitfalls to avoid or places to lean in so that they can get the value of so they can move, move towards alignment, or find alignment? The benefits of that?  

Karley  

Pitfalls to avoid. Harsh self criticism? I mean it's we all have the. Voice in our head. But how many of us? Can actually go, yeah. OK. Thank you for your input. I'm good just. Go sit over. There, right.  

Jalen  

And it's like how is. It that we come to believe that abuse is actually can is useful, I just.  

Karley  

Is self we self condone our own abuse like that's insane. So you know, so you know. Give yourself space and grace to figure it out. I think that's there's this wonderful organization and I think I've already dropped 14 letter letter. You know, it wasn't a four letter word but had more. Letters in it. But there's a great organization. Called suck up. Nights and their whole purpose for existing, and I've spoken at one of their events is to kill the killing culture. Oh, everything's. It's all really good. We've got it all figured. Out and this group of business owners who founded it sat down one night because they're from Mexico over some really good tequila. And they started telling their buck up stories. And they're like, why don't we? Do more of this, like everybody sounds like they're. Killing it. Yeah, well. The the other the the whole lesson here is we're all just making it up as we go along and some of us realize what we've made-up is good and we turn it into systems and. Structures, which is what I have been fortunate to do and everybody can do it, but just take the pressure off, know that you've chosen to go through a journey of transformation and it's worth it if you're being called to do it or forced, you might be forced to do it. The universe might have called you knocked on the door a bunch of times, or your family. And you just it's.  

Jalen  

It's time.  

Karley  

Time right like. You don't. You aren't getting the signal. So guess what? Everything's now come crashing down. Or it's on the tipping point. But that work in that investment is worth.  

Jalen  

It is another piece. I've just you just embedded what you just said is it might actually be a worthwhile investment to lean in to the inquiry before. You get forced.  

Karley  

100%. What am I being told? And that those signals can come from all sorts of places and some. People pick up on. Other some sort of signals better than others, but also recognizing your own strengths of what are the signals that I pick up on really well and which ones just bounce off my forehead and I'm completely oblivious to because there's your downfall, there's your pitfall.  

Jalen  

Ohh this has been this has been amazing. I love chatting with you and and I'm sure we're gonna do this again soon.  

Karley  

Thank you.  

Jalen  

I'm looking forward to it.  

Karley  

I'm in, yeah.  

Jalen  

Thank you so much.  

Karley  

My pleasure.